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Where is your line in the sand?

Still looking to learn more from the discussions about Venezuela and the socialist caused issues there and I was reading an article about how looters were breaking in and stealing from neighbours just to get some food and how some of these incidents led to fatalities.

I’ve thought about this type of scenario for a long time and the main part of that thought process is around stopping the looters. How far would I go to stop them? Where exactly is my line in the sand?

Under normal circumstances we wouldn’t stop then. We would call plod who would race around and arrest them taking them away for prosecution which is exactly what we pay them for. Bhawwwww. Only kidding. They would steal you blind and Plod would contact you a few days later with a crime number so you could claim from your insurance, you do have that don’t you? If you tried to stop them and were successful then the chances are you would end up charged for illegally detaining them. Long gone are they days of self defence and an Englishman’s home is their castle. While the rule of law is in place then justice is out the window and you must conform to the rules put in place by the Stasi.

If everything goes tits up then you cannot expect Plod to answer the phone, even if there are phones, and you are on your own. Even then though you need to consider that everything may go back to normal and you may have to answer for everything you have done while Plod were unavailable, with the wonderful knowledge of knowing that things are now back to normal they will state that the rule of law still applied and you will have to face justice for your crimes. The heinous crime of defending yourself. So you must take this into consideration while you are on your own.

Self defence is still a reasonable defence though, especially if there are no plod nor likely to be any around for a while, you must defend your property and your life on your own. It is your duty to do so and you and your entire families lives and freedom may depend on that. With no plod around peoples basic natures will be let loose and we have been disarmed by the Stasi, unlike a lot of criminals.

So the question is how far will you go to defend you and your families lives? It isn’t a trick question and you need to be brutally honest as it will make a big difference to your preps.

If you are willing to defend your stuff you must know how far you are willing to go. Where will you stop in a fight, will you be prepared to set traps for invaders willing to kill. Will you be able to kill someone that is a clear and present threat to you and yours?

Most of us say ‘Yes’ they would do anything for their families but in my experience many people talk a good fight but in reality they will buckle under the threat and leave themselves and their families exposed.

Thinking you can do something means you plan for that so if you fail to act then your planning is for nought. It is much better to be honest and your thoughts must be used to evaluate your preps. If you are going to just roll over and let invaders take what they want then you need to spread your preps about and hide them well. Hiding yourself and your family as well. If you are a stone killer then you can potentially defend a single cache against all but a mob.

Most of us will fit somewhere in the middle where we will have no issue with defending ourselves against a invader with wild eyes intent on killing and eating us. While most will not want to do anything against a young teenager although that person is still a threat to us. At the very least they can harm us or even worse announce our status to the world and how long do you think you will be able to keep secure then.

Try and consider several options and then ask could you stop that person with force.

  • A male armed home invader.
  • A female armed home invader.
  • A male teenager home armed invader.
  • A female teenager armed home invader.
  • A child armed home invader.
  • A male home invader.
  • A female home invader.
  • A male teenager home invader.
  • A female teenager home invader.
  • A male trying to get in.
  • A female trying to get in.
  • A male teenager trying to get in.
  • A female teenager trying to get in.
  • A child trying to get in.
  • A female with child trying to get in.
  • Several children trying to get in.
  • Someone with a police uniform on trying to get in.
  • One of your neighbours, one you know is untrustworthy, trying to get in.
  • One of your neighbours whom you like trying to get in.

This isn’t even a comprehensive list as even the least racist person person on the planet will respond in different ways if a straggly bearded man of asian descent was standing at the door or a elderly cuddly granddad type was standing there.

So spend a bit of time seriously thinking about the scenarios you could face after an event, the types of threat and where you would draw the line. Decide where your line in the sand is and then consider the probability of that happening. The information could save your life as you should stash your cache in different ways depending on the answers.

22 comments to Where is your line in the sand?

  • Ysbryd

    I would do my utmost to remain within the law but family comes first.

    It’s important to remember that using reasonable force is fine as a means of self defence, this means that your reaction must be in proportion to the threat. If you are in immediate fear for your life you can respond with deadly force. Whether or not your actions are premeditated also makes a huge difference if you are called upon to defend yourself in a court of law. Your defence must be that you acted in fear for your life, in the heat of the moment, without premeditation and as soon as your attacker was no longer a threat you must desist.
    If an alternative to violence was available eg. running away, then this would also damage your defence in a court of law.

    If you need to escape it’s much better to have a planned route with the minimum of pinch points or obstacles, rendezvous points at a safe distance from home….if you need to leave without having a chance to make any preparations you will need cashed stores. Food grade barrels with lids make great buried stores for food, clothes and a bug out bag…one or two well stocked stores along your planned escape route…..just in case you need to run for your lives.

    Strong rooms or panic rooms can be used to preserve your lives or property

  • Northern Raider

    AFTER TSHTF and ROL is no more, Anyone found here at night will be found here in the morning.

  • iaaems

    Should the brown stuff hit the whirling blades and the country is generally being overrun by desperados then I feel that it is fair to defend ones family unit – given that the powers that now be have failed and the admin does not work anymore.
    Since the end of WW2 we have been fortunate in that there have been no ultimate crisis situations as seen elsewhere. Long may this continue – but I am beginning to get a sense of something being not quite right at the moment, not sure what this is, so taking steps.

  • Fred

    This is excellent. Yes, it’s a key question I’m asking much of the time. On real and present threat to both life and limb, my approach is the same – kill. The type of thing where a gang of Muslims chase you in the street to beat you – that is one of those scenes. That’s a clear kill.

    For the intimidators, I’d aim to maim, not kill but all situations are judged at the moment. Are they theatening or in for the kill/maim? Which includes any tying up at all. Therefore it needs immediate deployment of what you have, instantly, before any dialogue.

    Third scenario, they attempt to banter, don’t. Stand stock still, hand on weapon, ready. If that does not have them backing off, then it’s clearly 1 or 2.

    Part of the whole thing is using as weapons something not normally a weapon. So no firearms unless law has broken down in the land. This now is bad because there is a lot of mayhem and yet still officially police about. It’s maybe the worst scenario.

  • Skean Dhude

    Bear in mind this article isn’t about staying within the law; this article is about could you pull the trigger.

  • post SHTF and WROL…no contest, me and mine come before any little scumbag!

  • Ysbryd

    having considered the scenarios that SD put forward I’m forced to admit that I just don’t know what I’ll do until the situation arises. As I’ve already said, family comes first but it’s also true that we would have to start rebuilding society sooner or later. This would mean retaining some of the standards. I’m not suggesting that you or I give to the poor until we are poor but is there any need to murder some poor bugger by ambush just because he/she was looking for something to eat or drink while just passing through (perhaps to rejoin family of their own) perhaps seek some middle ground.

    Secondly, if any of you think that you can work the land all day while defending your families and property from all comers 24/7 then you are kidding yourselves. You would soon reach the point of total exhaustion. Your judgment would go first, then your health. It simply can’t be done by 1 man alone, you need teamwork, a group of people that you can literally trust with your life.

    The difficulty is knowing who you can trust. Sadly the answer is damn few people and that’s before the shit has even hit the fan.

  • Ysbryd

    Fred, best get your defence lawyers to contact Skean Dhude and get him to delete this thread if you ever get into any bother 😂😂😂

  • iaaems

    With regard to non weapons as weapons – I believe that it is legal to have about ones person a device known as a walking stick/cane. These come in all shapes and sizes – if you see what I mean!

  • Ysbryd

    I have a good friend who owns a.steel walking stick created in the 1800’s which is capable of firing lead ball or shot by means of compressed air. (Legal until you load it.) He also collects swords and swordsticks.
    These beautiful antique items are legally displayed about his home.

    I keep a great many of my tools safely in the house to prevent them from rusting while they’re not in use. Obviously when I’m using them I have reasonable cause to be carrying them even if they do look a bit like offensive weapons, the problem with owning a smallholding is that I’m always busy…..I pretty much always have a sharp implement with me.

    Within certain limits its not about what you have in your home, it’s how you present it and show reasonable cause for its presence. Then if an item is “to hand” it could reasonably be used in self defence.

  • Paul

    It’s not the question, it’s the truth of the answers that matters.

    Peer ‘pressure’ can make many a mouse sound off like a man.

    • Ysbryd

      Who was sounding off Paul? If you’re disagreeing with someone or something someone said, please come out with it, don’t bother holding back…we’re all grown ups here.

      • Skean Dhude

        Ysbryd, I didn’t read that as getting any anyone just making a point that people say what they think that makes them look good while in reality they would not do anything like they say they would.

        The subject of the article really. I’ve seen many people say they can do X, Y and Z but when it comes down to it they hesitate. If you can’t do it. Fine, not an issue but consider it when you are prepping.

  • Ysbryd

    SD, that’s what I couldn’t understand…it didn’t seem like anyone was bragging or big going themselves up.

  • Ysbryd

    Bloody spellcheck (Grrr) I meant bigging themselves up. 😂

  • Lightspeed

    Good list SD.

    Pre-meditated response that becomes automatic, while not ideal from a legal standpoint, is the way to keep advantage I think.

    So:

    .A male armed home invader. RESPONSE: Maximum Force
    •A female armed home invader. RESPONSE: Maximum Force
    •A male teenager home armed invader. RESPONSE: Maximum Force
    •A female teenager armed home invader. RESPONSE: Maximum Force
    •A child armed home invader. RESPONSE: Maximum Force
    •A male home invader. RESPONSE: Force
    •A female home invader. RESPONSE: Force
    •A male teenager home invader. RESPONSE: Force
    •A female teenager home invader. RESPONSE: Force
    •A male trying to get in. RESPONSE: Force

    •A female trying to get in. RESPONSE: Force

    •A male teenager trying to get in. RESPONSE: Force

    •A female teenager trying to get in.RESPONSE: Force

    •A child trying to get in.RESPONSE: Force

    •A female with child trying to get in. RESPONSE: Force

    •Several children trying to get in. RESPONSE: Force

    •Someone with a police uniform on trying to get in. RESPONSE: Forthright denial of access.

    •One of your neighbours, one you know is untrustworthy, trying to get in. RESPONSE: Force

    •One of your neighbours whom you like trying to get in. Difficult one: Neighbours I like are those who are prepared and who already collaborate with us. Those people know how to contact us, they should never be encountered trying to get in unannounced.

  • Midnitemo

    I think varying responses to different levels of threat can only lead to disaster , establish one level of response for all interlopers and make sure everybody in your group understands and enforces it , if you don’t then you will be infiltrated,known as a source of stores and eventually attacked and looted possibly killed in the process

  • Ysbryd

    Scenario; a guy that you don’t know turns up at your house in the middle of the night banging on the front door shouting,”get out” you wake up disorientated from a deep sleep: How do you react?

  • Midnitemo

    It’s been established we don’t know him so I would wake everybody (probs already awake with all the banging) get them all dressed and ready to move at a moment’s notice (bob’to hand) and then we wait in our defensive positions all around the house and await developments , I wouldn’t enter into a discourse with the man unless he tried to force entry then it would be just a simple warning about the consequences of his actions.

  • Midnitemo

    Nobody should ever be admitted to your bug in , if you do enter into a discussion do it through a door/window or if you really feel the need for face to face go out to them , anyone admitted will speak of what they see,loose lips et al , they may not intend to compromise you but they will! and eventually you will be atacked/looted

  • Ysbryd

    Ok midnitemo, I agree that you don’t let anyone in to your home. At least you’re open to the idea of entering into a discussion with the guy though. Good job you didn’t just shoot him because he only wanted to point out that you have a chimney fire or some such…he could see the column of sparks from the main road and came to warn you.

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