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How we need to prepare


Categories

Team Work

In my preps I have put aside instructional materials as well as base material for several areas that I have little or no skills in. I watch those that have practical these skills with a touch of envy as when it comes to doing practical things I have ten thumbs on my hands.

At the last Scottish Meeting the Klampits brought an instructional book on Leather Braiding and some pieces of Leather as well as a knife that was being made for another prepper. It was interesting stuff and actually got me interested in looking at these two skills. Ken of course has his Herbal Skills and all around the table people had different experiences and skillsets.

It is a perfect example of how teams work better than individuals. They all bring something different to the table which compliments the skills that others bring. What one person doesn’t know, someone else usually has some knowledge about.

A few years ago I worked for a company that spent time showing you how teams were better than individuals and how to get the best from your teams. They started by showing us that no matter how good a single individual was a team performed even better. Then they explained the make up of teams and how everyone had a place.

Of course in our scenarios this isn’t always true. Not everyone has a place and teams without a structure don’t always hold together under pressure but even so providing that they are working towards a coomon goal, which we are, we perform better than individuals.

Our species is best when we are working together. What we need is a common goal, a future we can believe in and work towards then all our team members can help us reach heights that as individuals we cannot achieve.

However, the spanner in the works is that after an event we won’t know who to trust and it is likely that the people we have built up relationships with won’t be around or will be too far away to get together. In which case we need to keep ourselves to ourselves for simple survival and when survival is not enough and we need to start to rebuild then we have to reach out to others. Hopefully, we will have built up at least some sort of relationships before that point. Relationships built on trust and mutual understanding usually allow people to build ties that will hold steady in adversity.

So, we need to build relationships whilst we can, especially with people of similar mindsets. They don’t have to be preppers but as long as they have a solid base of morals, honesty and a variety of skills you never know where it will lead. Try and make sure they are far enough away not to be knocking on your door five minutes after an event but close enough that you can contact them when things settle down. I suspect that will be the difficult part. Nothing is perfect. Anyway, you may decide that you want to help them.

Myself, I can’t see a community holding together at first unless it has very strong ties built before the event but a small community starting to come together within three years would be a good thing to aim for.

That is what I am aiming for.

38 comments to Team Work

  • bigpaul

    “as long as they have a solid base of morals and honesty”! yeah, right, where are you going to find that in the money grabbing 21st Century?? nice thought, but not really doable.

    • Grumpy Grandpa

      BP, I readily acknowledge that, it seems, the vast majority want only what they can get from you but don’t rule out finding those who have that solid base that SD refers to. I consider myself to be in that moral and honest category and while I know you only through this Forum, I would judge you to be one of the same. I am sure that there are, while in an admittedly shrinking minority, plenty more the of same. Don’t give up on humanity so quickly – there’s still good ‘uns to be found but caution, always caution…

      • bigpaul

        granted GG, there MAY just be a FEW people in that category we can trust, but finding them amongst all the scum and rubbish of human existence that is prevalent in the world today may be more than we can accomplish!!

  • John

    I agree with bigpaul in respect of nice though but not really doable.
    Although groups will be the only way forward it will be a question of having to rebuild with what you have once the dust has died down post SHTF.

  • jimmy

    IMO, teamwork will be an essential survival skill, as there is safety in numbers. There will be bad people acting as teams.

  • bigpaul

    jimmy, bad people do not act as teams, they are called GANGS, this is a predominately CITY thing especially in places like Londonistan Man(gun)chester, but could crop up in smaller places like Plymouth too. however I believe groups to be something that will happen further down the line, to start with people will act independately, later on they will form groups known as VILLAGES and will work together on the harvesting, barn and house building and for mutual defence, but this will be many years, even decades, down the line.

  • Kenneth Eames

    I certainly think that Groups are essential in a time of crisis. With regard to trust, I certainly trust the West Scotland Group, all of them! I’ve been in this World a long time and I think I can weigh people up very quickly. I certainly put my trust in these people. I belteve that Forming Groups is essential to Preppers and Coupled with the development of Cameraderie can prove a very valuable asset. Kenneth Eames.

  • bigpaul

    be VERY wary of who you put your trust in post shtf, in a post collapse world there will be many people who will want to gain your trust just so they can obtain your food and gear, trust NO ONE until you are absolutely sure! there is a prepper saying which I live by:”if you don’t know them, haven’t worked with them or spent time with them, then DONT trust them!” I believe most people should memorise this, it will stand them in good stead “when the balloon goes up”!

  • Lanky Yankee

    I think people are going to need to group together a lot faster than 2-3 years. What happens when those gangs run out of food and start venturing out to the smaller towns and villages? There is good defense in larger numbers. I agree that there will be a people who will try and take everything, but mostly people are followers. If a bad person takes control of a large group then they will rape and pillage. If you get someone who is prepared and shows strong leadership in crisis, then you have a strong community who can work together and build. I’m not saying give all your stuff away to everyone, but working together towards a common goal/community will be essential for everyones survival

  • John

    Also although this might be helpful now post SHTF will be quite different because the chances are that you won’t know them, and will not have worked with them or spent time with them. They are more than likely to be complete strangers.
    So instead, as you always appear to say, you would not want to know them, put the shoe on the other foot.
    It is you who need them and they don’t know you.
    And don’t say you have it all and know it all for that would be self deception and will sure get you killed.

    • bigpaul

      that’s fine John but do you really want to take the chance? chances are with complete strangers you could end up with a knife in the ribs in the middle of the night! i would rather have what i have and do without what i haven’t and adjust my life accordingly rather than take the risk, but then that is my decision, i don’t trust many people NOW never mind post collapse, people i don’t know i don’t trust at all.

  • Skean Dhude

    BP, Never have I met someone as negative as you appear to be. I personally think most people are decent honest people. It is a minority that are not. I’ve met lots of people through this site and my previous sites and none have been lacking in the basic courtesies. I wouldn’t say I was at the stage where I would trust them with my life but I would be quite comfortable inviting them into my home.

    Of course when TSHTF things will be different but that includes both of us as well. I’m fully prepared to go to extemes that I wouldn’t consider now. As would 99% of everyone reading this.

    The people we so easily call scum are little different from us they have their own morals and honour system. Just not ones we recognise and you can tell them a mile off. I have met a few of them in real life. We live separate lives and we are not expected to interact on a daily basis but if we did they wouldn’t be that far apart from us. They probably think as bad of us as we do of them and probably for the same reasons. They are struggling to survive the same as us.

    There is however that 5% of people you just want to avoid, who would have no consideration for their own families so would think nothing of kicking you unconscious if they thought you had something of use. They don’t tend to be team players and you should avoid having these on your team.

    • bigpaul

      SD I am not negative- I AM A REALIST, I have been around a lot longer than most on this site and I was brought up and lived in a city for 40+ years, I have mixed with many types of people and I have seen what the human animal is capable of. its ok saying most people are decent honest people=thats fine for now, but post collapse? no petrol, no food, dirty water….people, no matter how honest, will KILL to feed their family in that situation. WTSHTF I will trust NO ONE I don’t already know and I will not apologise for that.

  • prepper1

    I think your grossly overestimating how many people are decent.
    Whilst yes there’s a core of the population now that are good decent folks just trying to get by, that’s now with money, food and asda, tescos or sainsburys just round the corner.

    Teams arent some special entity that can overcome all obstacles.

    Who from these groups is going to make the journey to another preppers house that’s being attacked in a wrol situation to help protect them when they have their own to protect?

    This sites getting as obnoxious about teamwork as it was about city preppers being stupid for living in the cities.

    If you need others to survive and manage after an event fine, there are others that dont particularly need other folks company or indeed trust people enough to form groups because they’ve had experiences of teams and been badly let down, so take the necessary steps of not being involved in teams to enhance their chances of survival post shtf.

    but for those of you who need people and love teams and teamwork, stop disparaging people that dont.

    Because no matter how much you bang on about it and extol the virtues of teamwork and “you cant survive without a team” some of us can.

  • John

    It would appear that we may be considering two different things here. One the immediate post SHTF and one a little later when then starts to settle, after the great die-off.
    In the former I believe you should be prepared to see and deal with behaviour you would never have believed possible from civilized humans. The reason you should avoid crowds has to do with the fact that individual frustration is one thing, but the frustration of many people feeds individual frustration and fear, which, of course, feeds the frustration of the crowd. The cycle will feed itself until either the root source of frustration is relieved or there is a catastrophic event, such as a riot or even worse.
    Welcome to the real world of social collapse, where families are sundered, and children and good, knowing people die because of the complacency, confusion, and naiveté’ of the unaware, which are at least as hazardous as weather, injury, and malicious action.

    In the latter you will have to have groups in order to survive, that is fact.

    Population.
    A community must have a large enough population for genetic safety in reproduction (ideally starting with the maximum possible diversity). That said, it cannot allow its population to grown beyond the relevant sustainable life support ecostructure. At the “lifeboat” level, I would urge you keep the total planned population no higher than the level where you “know” every other family, and that the village does not yet need full-time paid police, administration, etc.

    Genetic Diversity.
    I have been unable to locate a definitive study. However, provided the genetic makeup of the starting population has no inherent problems, consider, in an isolated population, starting with “unrelated” couples, who each have one boy and one girl.
    One couple, all children are siblings, dead end.
    Two couples, in generation 2 four children can marry, but all in the third generation are first cousins.
    Three couples, in generation 2 six children can marry, but all in the third generation are first cousins.
    Four couples, in generation 2 eight children can marry, and the following generations CAN avoid first cousin marriages, but each has only one person available as a spouse.
    In addition, there is a cycle where both brother and sister of one family must marry the sister and brother of another family. While this does not technically violate the first cousin rule, it is a repeated pattern of genetic concentration.
    Five couples, the following generations can marry and avoid first cousin marriages, and avoid the four couple forced cycle of brother & sister family “A” marrying sister & brother of family “B”. But in avoiding the brother / sister cycle, it appears each person alternates between only one mate potential and a choice of two.
    Six couples, the following generations generally each have a choice of three mates that avoids first cousin marriages. This is probably the smallest practical “Lifeboat” to wait out a dangerous situation.
    Six extended families do not, however, provide a wide safety margin (i.e. for sicknesses or accidents) or the ability to maintain and pass on specialized knowledge and skills, or maintain and develop much technology.

    Population stability.
    Whether a six family lifeboat, or the global population, the total number of humans MUST NOT grow beyond the reliable renewable resources.
    In general, when averaged, it means no one should parent a child beyond their own replacement and the replacement of their mate.

    Maximum Lifeboat Capacity.
    In a small community, the individual can BE an individual. Small communities reduce environmental impact, as the amount of “infrastructure” per person is less than in a densely populated city. (I.e., while an individual home can use a septic system to return the human sewage to the land; direct land deposit is not practical for a large apartment building.)
    (1) For discussion purposes, I’d toss out 120 or so families as the upper limit for a “Lifeboat”. It’s a number where it’s not difficult to know every family. I believe it is clearly below the level where full time (read paid by taxation) administration is required.
    (2) In reference to the above population stability factors, I’ll use “standard” families, with extended households (i.e. one set of grandparents resides in the family home), two children per couple, childbearing at age 20, lifespan of 80.
    The average extended family home could have 4 to 6 generations living there. (8 to 12 people)
    Society.
    Given the discussion above of education, specialization, repair of technology, let alone possibilities for continued advancement, do you still believe that a few friends in an isolated “village” can sustain humanity alone?
    Village size organizations can function on a barter system, and may not have much need for formal laws, or a complex economy for internal purposes. Absent a large scale disaster, they could provide a healthy, nurturing environment for an indefinite number of generations.

    But villages appear to be limited in the amount of specialization that can take place, and if unable to communicate, and conduct physical exchange of unique products, development is so inhibited that mankind’s progress would essentially come to a standstill, and most likely regress.

    I am quite happy to post more on the subject of numbers for long term survival of the species but I think you will get the drift from this.

  • bigpaul

    I don’t think we need to worry about the survival of the species, unless we have an event like that which wiped out the dinosaurs, there will always be enough survivors to perpetuate the species. at the moment the opposite is the case, we have too MANY people, which we are only feeding because we have access to cheap food from abroad, if that stopped for any reason this country can only feed about 25% of the population from its own resources.

  • prepper1

    Agreed. I dont think the group or the lone wolf issues relevant really for population boosting a long while after an event as they’ll always be teenagers running away see if the next camps better or inter camp marrying, tribal captures etc…

    So Where genetics may come into it for certain isolated groups if they want to reproduce, it may not as they may not want to reproduce and bring children into the fray.

    Same for lone wolves, capturing a woman etc walking to the river etc…

    or bartering the spare men or women for food goods etc..

  • john

    But how will we have enough survivors to keep the species going if we don’t have groups or are you not anticipating a life changing event for shtf?
    Also how would the lone wolf perpetulate the species?

  • bigpaul

    why all this interest in perpetuating the species? I thought this was a SURVIVAL forum not a dating site!

  • fred

    as long as they have a solid base of morals, honesty and a variety of skills you never know where it will lead

    Interesting.

    • bigpaul

      oh, we’re back to that again! i’d love to know where anyone thinks we’re going to find these saints, post collapse the place will be filled with the sort of people you really DONT want to meet. I know to some that is hard to swallow but you’r more likely to meet that sort(especially immediately POST SHTF) than any other because they are the most likely to survive.

  • jimmy

    IMO, there will be bad people who band together, more than the city gangs we have now. valid points are made talking about the desperation of starving people. Would a starving man get more food acting alone or with a group? all it takes is a charismatic leader to bring them together and show them a couple scores.

    I too have been around the block and agree with BP’s assesment of human nature, thats a big part of the reason i would want to team up with some other folks for mutual protection against the crazies. SD also brings up good points about putting yourself in the other persons shoes – they are viewing you the same way. my preference would be to team up with other families.

  • midnitemo

    The way i operate socially now wont work in the wake of an event , i currently give everybody the benefit of the doubt until they prove untrustworthy/lacking in honour or decency…and i anyone if i believed they’d do it for me….post appocalypse i can’t afford to be wrong…not just going to be out of pocket/dissalusioned or inconvienienced it could be way worse than that if you let a snake in your midst.

  • midnitemo

    should have said “i would do anything for anyone of my friends if i believed they would do it for me”

  • bigpaul

    I have always worked on the premise that if people can let me down then they will let me down(this has been proved right by my life experiences)therefore if I assume this then I wont be surprised when they do let me down.

  • Skean Dhude

    Wow. Away for a few hours and look what happens.

    OK. I think we will agree to disagree. I believe that we can build up communities of hard working and moralistic people and I’ll work towards that. I believe most people are decent people at heart and I’ll try and help as many as I can.

    I accept that it will be dog eat dog and every man for himself after an event but that is part of the interaction. I’m trying to prepare for that as well by identifying options available to our group when such circumstances arrive. Not all will be good.

    As a prepper I consider myself a realist as well. We just see different things when we are looking. I’m a cup half full kind of guy.

  • midnitemo

    I think trying to rebuild a society/community is the way forward but you have to survive the anarchy of the early stages first which to me means having people around you that you absolutely trust to do the right thing every time . i can’t bare the thought of isolating my kids and denying them the chance of a fuller life …comunity is the answer.

  • Lightspeed

    We believe that Team / lone-wolf are not mutually exclusive options.

    We live in a very small upland agrarian community of around 30 dwellings and a population approximately the same as it was pre-industrialisation. Each family in the community is very well prepped.. they are not preppers nor survivalists, just ordinary country folk who are used to dealing with adverse climate and unreliable Grid connections. When problems occur we help each other out as best we can.

    I am confident, to the point of near certainty, that in event of societal collapse, our little community would act inter-dependently. Each of us would primarily look after our own households, but equally, the community would pull together to defend itself from any potential raider-type threat. (Only one road up to us makes this quite do-able)

    Longer term, without engine powered agricultural machinery, collaboration on planting,tending and harvesting will be the most efficient way of surviving.

    Our take on this is that Lone-wolf = Personal responsibility, and that teamwork = interdependence with the others of our community.

    Teamwork wil be a critical capability in a post collapse world. We agree with BP thet the village will be the critical team in this respect. Its the way humans have interacted to overcome adversity for thousands of years.

    BTW Gangs are teams BP. You’ve seen them in action, its classic teamwork. Quite simply a Gang (team) is the easiest way to overcome (raid)individuals (lone wolves).

    • Grumpy Grandpa

      From my viewpoint, your situation sounds as though it’s very close to perfection! I don’t think you could have planned it any better! Wait a minute… you didn’t, did you?

      • Lightspeed

        GG our situation is not perfect. There are always compromise no matter how seemingly ideal the situation. As for planning, partly yes, we did plan this, in as much as we took a long time researching and assessing where we wanted to be, and even longer finding somewhere that came close.

  • bigpaul

    I see where your coming from Lightspeed,i still don’t think gangs are teams, more a mob made up of individuals, each out for what they can get personally. in any case I think that immediately post shtf it will be everybody-or every family- for themselves, communities i.e. similar to the village set up…people living separately but working collectively…will be a LONG way down the line post WROL when things have settled down and it is SAFE to associate with others. UNTIL this period in time occurs I and OH intend to keep ourselves separate from any others that have survived, that is our wish and we have plans which we have already formulated should the dreaded event ever come into being.

  • Lightspeed

    Timing when to come in from the cold will be important BP. Too early and we’ll be exposed to dysfunctional teams in which power strugles may still be going on, too late and we could find ourselves excluded.

    • bigpaul

      yes, I agree, too early and we could still fall prey to predators and raiders. too late? well I am quite happy to be excluded-always did feel happy with my “own” company!(especially if I have survived on my own for that long!)

  • jimmy

    even monkeys and raccoons work as teams. Like it or not, human beings are pack animals by nature.

  • bigpaul

    I really cant be bothered with this conversation anymore, whats the point? “you say its neither and I say its either, lets call the whole thing off(song)”I will agree to disagree, and I know which I prefer.

  • Kenneth Eames

    Hello BP, I agree with you here, East is east and West is west, and ‘nare the twain shall meet. We beg to differ. Our positions become entrenched. It is still enjoyable to read each others opinions. Kenneth Eames.

    • bigpaul

      I don’t mind/care if people have different opinions to me Kenneth, its when they say theirs is the “right” one I get ticked off.

      • Skean Dhude

        BP, I don’t see anyone saying theirs is the ‘right’ one. We are all just stating our opinions. People will choose which opinion they think is the right one, perhaps none of ours, and act on that one.

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